AP to the Banks: Show Us the Money. The Banks' Reply: Bugger Off
By John Amato Tuesday Dec 23, 2008 10:00amThink you could borrow money from a bank without saying what you were going to do with it? Well, apparently when banks borrow from you they don't feel the same need to say how the money is spent.
After receiving billions in aid from U.S. taxpayers, the nation's largest banks say they can't track exactly how they're spending it. Some won't even talk about it.
"We're choosing not to disclose that," said Kevin Heine, spokesman for Bank of New York Mellon, which received about $3 billion.
Thomas Kelly, a spokesman for JPMorgan Chase, which received $25 billion in emergency bailout money, said that while some of the money was lent, some was not, and the bank has not given any accounting of exactly how the money is being used.
"We have not disclosed that to the public. We're declining to," Kelly said.
The Associated Press contacted 21 banks that received at least $1 billion in government money and asked four questions: How much has been spent? What was it spent on? How much is being held in savings, and what's the plan for the rest?
None of the banks provided specific answers.
Is this insane?
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might just as well sent all that dough to bagdad on skids and have it dissapeared there then turn it over to the money whores who own the banks !
Wages have been flat for working people for 30 years. In that same
period of time the top 1% has increased their income by 140%. But
that isn't enough. Now they don't need cost overruns, deregulation,
defense contracts or outsourcing to get that kind of cash. Now we
just give it to them with no strings attached. Here is 20 Billion,
go get some bonuses and shit.
America Land of The Free is so fucked. Big Oil, Welfare Banking, Military Industrial Complex, and rotten to the core Government will swallow you up, not terrorists.
http://www.safesense.com/media/ky-jelly-4.jpg
a step in the right direction that they didn't lie about what they are doing with it?
just another fucking example of the
bush/cheney gop free market approach
to screwing the American public and
economy. why should the banks feel
the least bit accountable for what
they are doing with the money.
have bush/cheney been accountable for
all the crimes they have committed?
and that's a rhetorical question.
Of the U.S. before the criminals of this administration ride off into the sunset...maybe we should hold hearings? Naw...let's take that off the table...
Step 1: Send the assholes who sent them money to jail FOREVER (everyone who recommended this or voted for it) with forfeiture of all of their assets.
Step 2: Send the bank execs who benefited or refused to disclose the distribution of these funds to jail FOREVER with forfeiture of all of their assets.
Step 3: Nationalize the banks that received the money.
some of the chatter says that some of these funds are going to european banks. AIG and Lehman Bros. of course there are others caused a lot of this with credit default swaps. investors all over the world were sold these investment(s). Remember these mortgages were rolled into other investments and given grade
AAA+ type ratings(byS&P). so they bought up like crazy especially with strong foreign currency exchange. this is i suspect bigger than they are telling us.....multi trillions. they don't want to expose to the public the details. let the public believe it's all about people NOT paying their mortgage(s)......much more involved/complicated than that. this is/has been the ultimate PONZI scheme
instead of cash, should be receiving subpoenas.
Here is my most recent comment, it is a long one.
I am trying to put hard numbers to all of this.
We should resort to providing the banks with money the way Persia "gave gold" to the Roman kleptocrat Crassus when they captured him: pour molten gold down their throats.
I am making progress in unraveling, at least for my own understanding, the intricate weaving and fraudulent activity involved in the greatest financial swindle of all time.
No, I am not talking about the alleged Madoff swindle. At a mere $50 billion that is a pipsqueak.
I am talking about the entire US financial system.
The Fed and the Treasury have committed $8.5 Trillion thus far to flush out the system. That will not be anywhere near enough.
Twenty Trillion and they will be getting close.
In a recent comment:
'Credit Default Swaps are like life insurance for vampires…' here
I said this:
Michael Lewis does not get to the end of this road of flim flam. He only gets to the front gate.
The vast house of cards which is the US Financial system.
Each swap could be used to generate yet another derivative, another CDO. These were called SYNTHETIC CDOs.
Here is one explanation that is about as clear as mud.
Here (in pdf) from Mathieu Royer is another that is better.
I will include his stated conclusion here:
The phrase 'there is much potential for manipulation or abuse by sponsors.' is a vast understatement.
A cash CDO could involve a bundle of mortgages which acted as the collateral. The originator of the mortgages bundled them and sold them, that person did not care if they would be repaid. A house of cards built on a foundation of quicksand.
The worst of these mortgage bundles had a pseudo insurance policy sold along with them, euphemistically called Credit Default Swaps. What Barney Frank calls 'Vampire Life Insurance'.
The synthetic CDO took a Credit Default Swap, itself an unregulated instrument, and created another CDO which was then sold to an investor(s). Their cash and the CDS acted as collateral.
The investors most likely thought they were getting a AAA grade security.
The CDS themselves were pseudo insurance contracts on the riskiest of the underlying assets of the original CDO. These assets would have been rated BBB.
They should have been rated junk, even lower than BBB because of the flim flam of the originators but that is another story in itself.
However, the rating agencies could and did rate the synthetic CDO as AAA even though it had junk as its basis.
This is among the stuff that Paulson originally proposed to buy from the banks, Krugman's 'Cash for Trash'. The political heat was increasing and Paulson changed course, just giving the Banks the cash directly.
But now Bernanke is doing the Cash for Trash program at the Fed. With no review by a court as has been found out by Bloomberg when they sued to get the lowdown.
No wonder Paulson included in his original proposal that his actions should not be reviewable by a court.
This is the greatest swindle in the history of the world, bar none. The FBI unfortunately has been busy chasing probably mostly imaginary bad guys that may or may not be hiding in caves in central Asia somewhere.
The Greatest Bad Guys are hanging out on Wall Street.
They have been selling this crap to the entire world.
Instead of truckloads of cash from the Fed and Treasury, these guys should be getting subpoenas.
When is this story going to be on the front page.
I am going to continue to try to put solid numbers behind all of this. The FBI would be much better at it.
Here are other recent comments:
'Credit Default Swaps and other Derivatives' here.
'Life Insurance for vampires…' here.
'Ponzi schemes USA' here.
don't forget the $$2-3 trillion that went missing from the Pentagon coffers -
on Sept 10th 2001.
When you make such an allegation, document, ie link your source.
Here, WaPo talks about the DOD Inspector General Report of 03/31/08.
I have little doubt that there a people, who if they could get away it, would secrete vast amounts.
The privatization of the military and the reduced government oversight guarantees waste fraud and abuse.
But, the saying is, 'the best way to rob a bank is to own a bank', that is the area I have been concerned with.
I document my sources and I welcome corrections.
I have never heard the likes of what you have claimed.
the supposed pilot of the plane that supposedly hit the Pentagon did a 270 degree turn to hit the one spot on the building that had been re-inforced. Of course that section also included the paperwork that might have helped find out where those trillions of dollars went. What a fantastic coincidence.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kpWqdPMjmo
Unbelievable...I'm with you guys, but is there anything anyone can do. We need to put an end to this elitist B.S. The banks owe EVERYONE a detailed explanation of how and where and why the TAX PAYERS money is being spent. ANYONE getting a cent of this "bailout" money needs to be held accountable.
"We can't track the money"...WTF?!...a banks only roll is to deal with money and they can't keep track of the money thy are given? Isn't that sorta the whole reason they are in the mess that they are? So now we just throw heaps of cash at them? Yeah that'll fix things.
Throwing money at people never teaches them anything. You don't learn lessons until you fall on your face.
Just my humble opinion, but what do I know. I'm just a bleeding heart liberal...
See if you can get on the paper -- see if you can fit it on the paper!
The United States of Bankruptica is like a Talking Heads song, so I'm off to listen to Life During Wartime.
lived in a brownstone, lived in a ghetto, i've leved all over this town.
don't want no mudd club or cbgb's i got time for that now.
from memory
that the banks provide explanations of what they were doing with the money, then why would they provide that explanation voluntarily? The banks will all want to be on a level playing field - either they all have to disclose, or none of them will.
The banks are competing with each other (at least theoretically) and won't want to give information about their financial dealings to their competitors unless those competitors have to provide the same information. Also, almost anything the banks do with the money will be criticized by someone (so there's no PR benefit). Finally, for some financial institutions, admitting what they were actually using the money for might disclose how close to going under they are and cause runs on the bank.
In other words, it's completely rational for the banks to refuse to provide the information. If we wanted them to, the government should have made it a condition of the aid.
and another reason why the wall street blackmail bill is one of the most disgusting pieces of congressional action--ever.
the banks should be tethered to a tree behind the capital without shelter, but, instead, it is the people who are eating dog food. and the fault lies with our elected followers (aka congress).
it was the wrong plan, benefiting the wrong people, with reflective disastrous results.
as far as the concerns of the bank and their competitiveness (and i know we will not agree), fuck 'em. the banks really deserved to go under, it was their own short-sighted fault. and the fact that my tax money is paying for chauffer services, bonuses, and the such angers me to no end. too big to fail = should be broken up.
If thy sent me a few million? I would swear to them that I would not tell anyone. I would even swear that I didn't receive any money from them.
Snark
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=st1lH8zcIuQ
I like comedian Wanda Sykes's comment on all this:
"Oversight?! I want receipts, damnit!!"
And isn't this just the sort of thing that Argentineans stormed their banks over several years ago?
at least the Argentinians had some guts. Like those protesters in Greece...
or the those Indians who meted out justice to their former employers
Take every dime out of them and take them to your local credit union. In some states, the oversight is higher quality. These guys are just looting the states while the Bush junta is around to look the other way
Credit unions are one of the few types of banking institutions you can trust.
I share your motivation and admire it's intent. Though, do not all financial institutions operate through the federal reserve? I myself believe that is where we may find chicanery. In addition, they have no transparent oversight to say the least. Though I would not sit idle nor discard your intent, at least not as I understand it. Thanks
PS. Did ya hear about the guy found dead in NY today? Related to the Madoff 50 billion scam, he worked for or ran this company. > Access International <> http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206010...
Amended: http://dealbook.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/12/23/...
You know. This is getting pretty damn old.
We need to nationalize our banking system. These greedy criminals are not out for the best interests of all, but for the few.
In the meantime, we need to picket/boycott every last one of these financial institutions that are takin our fuckin tax money with zero accountability.
Packed up and ready to go
Heard of some grave sites, out by the highway
A place where nobody knows
The sound of gunfire, off in the distance
I'm getting used to it now
Lived in a brownstone, I lived in the ghetto
I've lived all over this town
This ain't no party, this ain't no disco
This ain't no fooling around
No time for dancing, or lovey dovey
I ain't got time for that now
Transmit the message, to the receiver
Hope for an answer some day
I got three passports, couple of visas
Don't even know my real name
High on a hillside, trucks are loading
Everything's ready to roll, I, I
I sleep in the daytime, I work in the nigh time
I might not ever get home
This ain't no party, this ain't no disco
This ain't no fooling around
This ain't no mud club, or C. B. G. B.
I ain't got time for that now
This ain't no party, this ain't no disco
This ain't no fooling around
No time for dancing, or lovey dovey
I ain't got time for that now
Heard about Houston? Heard about Detroit?
Heard about Pittsburgh, PA?
You ought to know not to stand by the window
Somebody see you up there
I got some groceries, some peanut butter
To last a couple of days
But I ain't got no speakers
Ain't got no headphones
Ain't got no records to play
Why stay in college? Why go to night school?
Gonna be different this time?
Can't write a letter, can't send a postcard
I can't write nothing at all
This ain't no party, this ain't no disco
This ain't no fooling around
I'd love you hold you, I'd like to kiss you
But I ain't got no time for that now
Trouble in transit, got through the roadblock
We blended in with the crowd
We got computers, we're tapping phone lines
I know that ain't allowed
We dress like students, we dress like housewives
Or in a suit and a tie
I changed my hairstyle so many times now
Don't know what I look like
You make me shiver, I feel so tender
We make a pretty good team
Don't get exhausted, I'll do some driving
You ought to get you some sleep
Burned all my notebooks, what good are notebooks?
They won't help me survive
My chest is aching, and it burns like a furnace
The burning keeps me alive
One bit of good news: Despite the Depression, music (especially concert tours) still generates dependable revenue!
(And it generates heat too!)
All I can say is far more citizens than not told their congress-critters not to pass the bailout package without much more thorough oversight.
But of course Pelosi, Reid, Franks etc, as our self-proclaimed "leaders" (rather than simply being our "representatives"), know far more than we know, so they ignored us. So instead of oversight they displayed a veritable love-fest in their complete trust of Bush and Paulson.
After all "Who could have known?" giving in to Bush on lack of oversight would be such a disaster?
An example of the Dem party's Kumbaya stupidity, at its finest.
Not only can you not get a loan without saying how you're going to use it-it is illegal to use it for anything other than the stated purpose. The gov should have done what they did with the car companies and made the banks come up with a plan on how they were going to use the money. But they fell for another one of Bush's act-now-the-sky-is-falling scenarios probably because they were scared they'd get the blame if the Bushies were finally right about something after 8 years. Plus they didn't have union employees to demonize like they do with the auto industry.
Considering this TARP Bill and the way it was "written" do you think this Congress will EVER give a darn what the people think or want? All they care about is getting elected. They spend their time schmoozing and collecting money to BRIBE for their seat next time. Always focused on their BRIBE account and never on the people.
And you continue to wonder why they don't allow for accountability from the banks, or the criminals in office either.
Do we the tax payers have theft insurance? 'Cause, we have been robbed!
I heard a little while ago that the man who handled Madoff's funds was found dead today. Perhaps suicide.
Doubtful it was suicide.
if he was a witness.
Was he on a plane like Karl Rove's I-T guy!!??
I hate them all.
All I want for xmas is that justice be done upon all who have taken part in this.
Whether that justice be official, or cosmic in nature, I don't care.
As long as it happens...SOON, I'll be happy.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206010...
a victim:
http://www.reuters.com/article/ousiv/idUSN235...
That it's ok to bloody the nose of american taxpayers. In the spirit of self defense, you should feel free to bloody the nose of all upper management of banks when you see them shopping, going to work, whatever they may be doing. Enjoy!
It's the CEO's at the main offices.
So far the execs at these banks have received 1.6 billion dollars in executive bonuses, which includes private jets, home security, chaufferr , stock options and resort memberships. Must be nice being a failure, all the perks.
a-yup.
I'm 'surprised' that those in the media seem 'surprised'.............well, not really..............
There is no angle to look at this that doesn't piss me off. I've been reading about it for a while now (starting with the crisis before the bailout) and it just keeps getting both more anger-inducing and surreal.
The Banks know right now their safe with Bush in charge and can do what ever they want. Jan. 20th watch these same banks take the money and try to run. But hold on Obama will take their money and if they don't have all of it he'll take their assesets over seas. Obama/Biden work for the American taxpayers not big business. There will be a honest Commander-in-Chief in charge and CHANGE is on the way.
But I'm feeling jaded and pessimistic at the moment.
The Bush Obama Machiavelli Bailout.
Or BOMB for short.
If you think The Obama Administration is going to set things right, I have a new Chrysler to sell you, cheap.
with Summers as his chief economic adviser, Rubin advising him on the side, and Geithner handing out money from the Treasury, I'm sure we'll be in great shape. With such a large sampling of Status Quo failures in his employ, I'm sure we'll get a change we can believe in.
don't hold your breath. consider that the financial industry gave more money to obama than they did mccain. and like others have commented, obama is a rubiniac. in other words, they should get along juuuuuuuuust fine
No. This is how it works. The actions of the trading desks are secret. They are busy creating the next bubble, just as they did with technology, mortgage backed securities, and then commodities like oil, gas, copper, and gold. We won't know what the next bubble is until they decide to tell us, at which time they will sell whatever it is back to us at the new, higher price. See? We give them the money, and they sell it back to us at a profit.
As we speak they are turning Tarp Funny Money into gold bars. They want the economy to tank then turn around and sell gold at possibly $5000 an ounce. Civil unrest, who cares. Most Americans have no idea who they are dealing with.
By the way American Express has decided to be listed as a Chartered Bank today. Guess what they want Tarp money to. It is a regular free for all.
When we taxpayers owe the bank they don't hesitate to call our home phone to find out when we will be sending a payment so they can help set up a payment plan.
I think taxpayers should all get the home phone numbers of bailed out CEOs and bank owners as well as auto industry owners and CEOs so we can start calling them at home to help them set up a payment plan.
tee heee yippieee were screwed obummers the answer teee heee!
They should fire all of the CEO's and top execs of these financial institutions. They should have to return all but $200,000.00 per year for the last 8 years that they worked for them.
Then, they should hire the new leaders and force them to sign a contract which subjects them to very strict oversight and auditing. Their pay should be based on performance, with a base salary of $100,000.00 per year plus performance bonuses of not more than an additional $200,000.00 per year. No other money should go to them.
All financial institutions should be heavily regulated from now on, with so many controls that everything they do would be transparent and subject to strict scrutiny. Laws should be changed so that these guys would be subject to criminal charges if they violated the regulations.
shoulda, woulda, coulda with these people of low report. The solution lies somewhere between a Pb enema and a Pb enema.
that can't track money? Who knew?
That's why I now pay CASH FOR EVERYTHING!
Remember? When the banks signed on for these huge payments, it was because they were brought to a board room at Treasury and urged to take the money. They were reluctant, there were some refusniks, but Paulson held them there until they joined in as a group. That gives them tremendous leverage over Paulson -- "We did you a favor!" -- and they're using it now by refusing transparency. Here's part of the story (10/31,NYTimes) as a reminder:
The American Bankers Association complained on Thursday that bankers around the country were “extremely upset” about how the Treasury Department was trying to offer them billions of dollars in fresh capital.
“These bankers believe they are being asked — in some cases pressured — to participate in a program they did not want and do not need,” wrote Edward L. Yingling, president of the American Bankers Association, in a blistering letter to the Treasury secretary, Henry M. Paulson Jr.
Saying he had “deep concerns with the lack of clarity about the program,” Mr. Yingling said the confusion had grown sharply this week over what the government’s purpose was.
but, call me difficult, i don't believe the story--nytimes, or not. they were pressured to take billions and billions of free money, with no oversight, no strings attached? pressured? come on...
seems to me the complete opposite. the banks were demanding money under threat that the entire economy would collapse unless we handed over the loot to the brooks brothers-clad crooks.
i'll trust the president of the ABA when monkeys fly out of my butt. no, to easy. i will trust the pres of the ABA when monkeys fly out of my butt, riding on the backs of cigar-smoking, winged pigs, dressed like annie oakley. maybe.
I think your heart (and brain!) are in the right place, but I remember when all that was going on. The bankers really didn't want those ties to the government, didn't like being strong-armed. There were some pretty hilarious descriptions of how Treasury managed to force the holdouts in that meeting to get in line for money. It's counterintuitive -- I'll give you that -- but it's true, and one of the weirder chapters in a story we know all too little about! Meanwhile, keep those weird transvestite monkeys nice and cosy in your butt (that cigar smoke and the pigs must be pretty annoying!)!
ok... i will keep them there... for now...
:)
it does seem that the bankers, in the end, got exactly what they wanted. and you are right, we do know too little about how the deal came together, and what has happened to my money, your money, everybody's money, since then.
Anyone that acts surprised, or even held out hope that the money given to the banks would not disappear like that millions in Baghdad did, is living in a dream world.
Banks are in the business of using money to make more money. There comes a point when the need to increase the bottom line overrides the need to deal aboveboard. The crisis materialized from shady deals built on shady deals, the mindset wasn't going to change overnight simply because the money came directly from the taxpayers with the government as a conduit.
CONTACT: Kevin Heine of The Bank of New York Mellon Corporation, +1-212-635-1590 , kevin.heine@bnymellon.com
ask him yourself
I called Dianne Feinstein today and told her if she is not going to hold accountable banks who are getting our tax dollars and living like kings, come and get me if you think i'm paying off my credit cards.
if thousands of americans in this country would stop paying them, there is no way they could punish all of us. and if 19 ceo's can wipe us out with impunity, with the complicity of the government and press, are we just going to let it happen and cower in the corner?
I didn’t know that the job of the Secretary of the Treasure was to hand over the treasury to people who wanted it just because they couldn’t handle their own money and lost it all. If that were the case they should hand a wad of cash to my sister, she spent over $5,000.00 last year trying to find a good cell phone service. She never understood the idea of a two year contract having to be paid even if you wanted to stop service. God, she could sit on the board of any investment house on Wall Street.
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