Tammy Bruce thinks torture is no worse than a bad day in West Hollywood
By David Neiwert Wednesday Jan 28, 2009 6:45am
According to Bill O'Reilly, there is now a tell-all-book standard for determining whether or not political officials should be investigated. If it's not in the tell-all books available, it's not there.
And according to Tammy Bruce, "enhanced interrogation" is really not much different than a bad shopping day in West Hollywood.
Discussing the "far left" push to look into potential prosecutions of Bush administration officials for war crimes and various other misdeeds (see here [wmv] or here [mov] for the preceding Talking Points Memo segment), O'Reilly argued that the absence of any evidence of criminal wrongdoing in books by Scott McLellan and Bob Woodward about insiders' views of the White House pretty much means there isn't any evidence to be had.
O'Reilly: So, you don't really have anything on the table that says that you -- look, in order to launch an investigation --
Marc Lamont Hill: Let's investigate --
O'Reilly: No, you don't launch an investigation without probable cause. That's not how it works.
Hill: But there is probable cause, and that's what we need to look at.
O'Reilly: Like what? Like what?
Hill: When you talk about Guantanamo, when you talk about Abu Ghraib -- there were reports from FBI agents, from guards, from many people who said that there's a structural sort of attempt to torture and to abuse prisoners. And this is something that George Bush has dismissed this as a few bad eggs, a few bad apples, and what we see here is a structural issue. And so let's investigate those structural issues.
O'Reilly: The only probable cause is one person in Guantanamo said -- and she described, you know, loud music, stress positions, what do you say to that, Tammy, that there's been enough news reporting to raise it to probable cause. I don't agree, but what do you think?
Tammy Bruce: No, loud music and standing for long hours and not having enough water is what I experience in West Hollywood on occasion. The truth of the matter is, this is classic Bush Derangement Syndrome. It's something that was coined by Charles Krauthammer, I believe, where these are individuals who are obsessed and paranoid about the president, and they're going to have to, in one of their favorite phrases, move on. Sooner than later.
It just makes no sense. These are people who don't need to be in office, they need to be in a psychiatrist's office.
O'Reilly: Unless there's a smoking gun or -- I gotta go, but -- [to Hill] You don't expect Barack Obama to go into this witchhunt mode, do you?
Hill: No, because he doesn't have the political courage to pursue justice. It's not personal, it's justice.
Bruce: It's derangement.
It's becoming apparent that, to Bush's never-say-die defenders, the presidency is now a Get Out Of Jail Free Card -- one only redeemable for Republicans. They've elevated the Office of the Presidency (GOP Mode Only) into a virtual dictatorship free to break whatever laws it likes as long as one can claim they're "doing it to protect the country."
As for "probable cause," O'Reilly should acquaint himself with the evidence that's already available in the form of Michael Haas's book George W. Bush, War Criminal?: The Bush Administration's Liability for 269 War Crimes. It lists 269 potential war crimes in which public evidence of Bush's culpability is already available. O'Reilly might be inclined to dismiss most of them, but it's hard to see how he can dismiss them all.
Unless, of course, he just wants to. After all, when you get down to it, Bush's criminal acts were no worse than bad shopping days.
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..... in a warm and sunny place like W. Hollywood.
Gitmo. In fact, I recommend it for all torture supporters, starting with Cheney, Addington and Rumsfailed.
Or just justice-haters? Do they not remember all the openly public almost-illegal acts the Bush administration engaged it? Doesn't it make sense to investigate the former administration?
I don't want neo-cons or Bush & Co. to rewrite history, and that's what they are trying hard to do: http://tv1.com/playlists/123
do a little time at Gitmo.
Maybe a year or two of torture and no habeus corpus rights.
Then we'll do an interview. I have a funny feeling it would end up looking more like that of Christopher Hitchens after he underwent waterboarding.
these "people" are beneath contempt.
There is a concerted effort by some parties to make torture acceptable.
Resist these people. You'll see enough of them at the war crimes trials...
Ha ha, I crack myself up.
Once we, as a society, cross the line in accepting torture, then we'll clearly get a view of who's "privileged" and who isn't. For the privileged, we'll have court motions and trials. For the rest, we'll have torture and mutilation, with no due process, as a means of promoting justice. So the question is.. who will decide WHO gets the privileged treatment? Eh? Neither O'Reilly nor Bruce nor any other underqualified tongue-wagger will ever take torture to its logical end, will they?
All Bill-o has to do is lose his job and have a string of bad luck, and he'll be tortured instead of getting a speeding ticket. All Limbaugh has to do is lose his viewership and get caught with a handful of oxycontins, and he'll get waterboarded as a despicable drug abuser who needs to be taught a lesson and give up the name of his supplier.
Bill-o's a dancing idiot who thinks he's smart by spewing venom to keep his millions. It's all about theater, isn't it, Bill? Nothing's real to him and Tammy Bruce and rest of these elites because they're insulated from the real life of people beneath their feet.
If Rush were any other fat white guy in Palm Beach Co (and there are PLENTY of them...) caught with even ONE oxy, he'd be sitting at Gun Club with the rest of the "common" criminals.
The only likely time that's likely gonna happen is during the gay pride parade or L.A. Marathon. And no one would call that torture. Otherwise, she's seriously delusional.
she's not locked in a cage in west Hollywood.
She is debating with Loofa man who forgot which side we were on at Malmady. I am thinking she enjoys a good SS roleplay on Hollywood BLVD.
Since torture is part of their kink, they simply cannot understand why it is so bad.
On occasion my arse. Try it for five years, Dimwit.
"Hill: No, because he doesn't have the political courage to pursue justice. It's not personal, it's justice.
Bruce: It's derangement."
If there isn't any prosecution for war crimes, people will wonder WHY. The right will just see it as weakness. But to everyone else, they'll just see it as another reason to ignore the law.
I've already seen people use the GW excuse for shitty performance at work,... insisting that 'history will prove them right'.
... too bad, you still have to clean your room.
(The implied, '... or I'll do it for you' also meant '... and throw away your toys and other things you think are important.')
It's not in Bill-o's best interests to actually read about the evidence. If he were to do that and report it on his show, he's be encroaching upon the world of journalism, and in doing so, he'd lose viewers who aren't interested in journalism. His viewers are interested in releasing into their respective bloodstreams all of the catecholamines that they can produce. Journalism isn't stimulating. Not to Billy-boy, not to his viewers.
Who knew she had a twin???
Who knew we needed one?
just need a good ass kicking.
.... is one word that comes to mind. the problem is that you can't actually waterboard o'really because he and other reporters KNOW that you are not going to drown them, thus, it sucks (big time) but its not torture. Prisoners aren't sure if the torture is going to stop or if they are going to drown. when i was in the basic training (Army) the drill sgts played some serious head games with us, but it was'nt torture because you knew they were'nt going to kill you.
P.S. i know some soldiers accidently died during basic, and that truely sucks. but if i remember correctly the drill sgt responsible was charged. so why not charge the people that Authorized it i.e, bush/chaney.
So what were these jokers saying about Clinton and blow jobs and impeachment? Wait... wait, its coming (no pun intended) to me..... oh yeah I remember now.
I still remember when torture was unacceptable to most people.
Bush has infected this country with his inhumanity. It's amazing how low in the gutter Faux and its viewers are, they have lost their collective minds.
Another thing is that war crimes were not the only crimes these criminal minded criminals committed. Remember the phone tapping spying thingy? You remember when they went to Ashcroft's hospital bed and begged him to sign off on it but he WOULD NOT!!! Oh there are so many more crimes.
If you want to set O'Shithead off just ask him how much money Bush lost him in the stock market and other investments he had. Heh
how much he paid out for his sexual harassment law suit.
... West Hollywood and Abu Ghraib is that one has a choice to sit down or go to a Starbucks or other vendor to get water.
What's truly deranged is that we're still having this conversation with idiots like O'Reilly. A hack journalist and pervert telling us that depraved behavior such as torture is really okay.
I can just imagine how she would describe the Nazis. Jews getting free train rides and all expenses paid resort vacations, while the hard working party members footed the bill?
... Bataan Death March is the same as going for a walk in the park.
....was no different than a long picnic on a hot summer's day...singing included.
Then you should take a look at this video posted at RawStory where the United Nations Special Rapporteur on Torture Manfred Nowak tells Rck Sanchez that there is a clear case for the prosecution of Donald Rumsfield among other Bushies for war crimes and that the United States has a DUTY to investigate.
http://rawstory.com/news/2008/UN_official_Eno...
John Dean, former White House legal counsel sez':
"Remarkably, the confirmation of President Obama's Attorney General nominee, Eric Holder, is being held up by Texas Republican Senator John Cornyn, who apparently is unhappy that Holder might actually investigate and prosecute Bush Administration officials who engaged in torture. Aside from this repugnant new Republican embrace of torture (which might be a winning issue for the lunatic fringe of the party and a nice way to further marginalize the GOP), any effort to protect Bush officials from legal responsibility for war crimes, in the long run, will not work.
It is difficult to believe that Eric Holder would agree not to enforce the law, like his recent Republican predecessors. Indeed, if he were to do so, President Obama should withdraw his nomination. But as MSNBC "Countdown" anchor Keith Olbermann stated earlier this week, even if the Obama Administration for whatever reason does not investigate and prosecute these crimes, this still does not mean that the Bush Administration officials who were involved in torture are going to get a pass.
With few exceptions, the discussion about what the Obama Administration will do regarding the torture of detainees during the Bush years has been framed as a domestic matter, and the fate of those involved in torturing has been largely viewed as a question of whether the Department of Justice will take action. In fact, not only is the world watching what the Obama Administration does regarding Bush's torturers, but other countries are very likely to take action if the United States fails to do so."
Many seem to want to use torture under the misapprehension that some "good intel" will come of it. That has been debunked time and time again; the tortured will say anything and I can imagine that an individual KNOWING he might be tortured if captured will "learn" a new story in order to mislead the inquisitors. Besides the obvious illegalities of torture and the hope that the torturer-enablers are prosecuted (there's already a good case against Rumsfeld), what I'm really worried about is the use of torture that illicits wrong information (which according to studies will happen) that gets people killed. Or maybe that's happened already.
And then there is this. It is just more information about the same thing.
Pure and simple, some Republicans on the Judiciary Committee are extorting the President of the United States, by their willingness to allow Holder to be confirmed in exchange for some sort of guarantee that crimes committed by the Bush Administration will go unpunished. It is flagrant disregard for the rule of law. You have to wonder if Senator Cornyn took his oath of office seriously (you know, that part about "supporting and defending the Constitution"). Perhaps, like the swashbuckling Captain Jack Sparrow, Cornyn has had a few too many (terms, that is) and thinks the Constitution "just be guidelines", only to be followed when it is to his benefit.
There is much more.
and for being an accessory after the fact.
Somebody should compile the best of these morons talking down torture with a split screen showing photos of the tortured and dead.
I think that is an amazing idea.
on the split screen
both these assholes should get waterboarded for about 20 to 25 min. thenwe ask them, well how was it.
I could never condone torture. Of anyone.
...that said, perhaps they could be waterboarded until they admit it's torture. After all, if it's not torture, they'll have no problem with it.
And when they "confess" to it being torture (and you know they would), you say "see?"
And then when they claim they only said that so you'd stop, you say "see?"
:)
rather be water-boarded than have to watch Tammy Bruce and Billdo discuss torture.
i see both of them is a shower,where orealey has a fluff-a.
Remember how important it was to punish Bill Clinton for sex? Ignoring torture seems a bit odd, given past Republican fervor for punishing those who break the law!
I mean they're republicans, what's the difference?
I wonder how long these cretins will be accepted as the legitimate alternative party to Democrats.
Remember how important it was to punish Bill Clinton for sex? Ignoring torture seems a bit odd, given past Republican fervor for punishing those who break the law!
------------------------------------------
Sex is against the law?
If the Republicans had their way, none of us would have our way.
He's just trying to salvage his own reputation because he was in bed with these mass murderers. Billy's just a blood drinking whore.
is a repulsive creature.
She was recently quoted in the Advocate trashing Obama, stating she didn't vote for him and expressing sympathy for "Joe the Plummer".
That's it, Tammy...cast your vote for the likes of Sarah Palin, someone who belongs to a church that consigns gay people like you to the fires of hell and who wants to deny anyone like you your basic civil rights.
History is full of boot-lickers like Bruce who will kiss the ass of anyone to sell books.
I suggest all the a-holes that want to parrot neocon braying points should try a few of these techniques at torture day camp. Lets see how much they support them afterward. What an annoying harpy.
So when she goes shopping, do they strip her naked and put male clerks' underwear on her head while she is shakled in stress positions for hours, punch her face repeatedly, let dogs take chunks of flesh from her leg, and take photos of her while everyone laughs? It's amazing that sadistic psychopaths have such a following.
like all crminals, know that their ends always justify the means.
that while Bill O'Reilly advocates for torture and claims its no big deal he is also scared witless when the subject of bringing the detainees from GITMO into the U.S. to stand trial. I wonder why he would be so scared of some people who he claims were treated just fine...
Tammy Bruce = the female Dennis Miller.
Whens the game show starting Tammy?
keeps up it's contest for who is going to shove them into irrelevancy the quickest.
And I have no respect for them with their '180'. Jeeez, can't even Fox News viewers remember COUNTLESS 'You must back the President of the United States' speeches? Revealing to them that these people might be paid, entertainment pundits, just like the carnival gawkers of old.
to the list of deranged morons who periodically show up on BillO's show.
This whole interview was framed with the background of so-called "Bush haters." Prior to this interview, BillO had provided stats from a poll which show that more people do not want to prosecute Bush for war crimes than those who do.
So keeping the concept of "Bush haters" in mind, I found that interesting that Bruce makes those comments that "it takes a liberal....blah, blah, blah...it takes a liberal, blah, blah, blah." About half way through the segment, you can hear her laughing at Marc Lamont Hill's response.
She says that the new White House web page is an "Obama vanity page."
Towards the end, she says liberals are deranged. In short, she hates liberals. These idiots have "liberal derangement syndrome," yet they never get called out on it on BillO's show!
After all that has happened and now we have a Bush derangement syndrome, ergo it's all our fault.
Do they have a special breeding place at fox for these kind of women, it's uncanny how many of them there are.
Tammy thinks we shouldn't have hung all those Japanese and German officers during and after World War 2 for having done the same thing to our soldiers then that the US is doing today?
The Republican policies of today show that the US was obviously on the wrong side and that we should have been fighting alongside the Germans and Japanese. Bill O'Reilly and other GOP legislators and pundits demand US build concentration camps for the 70% of Americans that disagree with them, and they routinely defend the most heinous tortures.
The Senate panel has approved Eric Holder's nomination as AG. It now goes up for the formal vote ...
The Prosecution of George W. Bush for Murder by Bugliosi. There's plenty of probable cause to investigate. What about the illegal wire tapping? The firings at the DOJ?
And what exactly was the probable cause for the investigation and subsequent impeachment of Clinton? Lying before congress over sexual misconduct? Excuse me O'Reilly you turd fuck human but yes, we have probable cause.
The right wing simply doesn't understand that America is *supposed* to set a higher example- so if we condone torture, it strips us of any and ALL credibility when we arrogantly boast how only AMERICA has freedom.
Most disturbingly though- when America tries to justify the use of torture on those they deem the enemy- it INVITES the enemy to torture captured US troops. This is putting US troops in serious danger.
My question is this- WHY do right wingers ALWAYS dismiss the reality that if we use torture, then that puts our soldiers at risk of being tortured? Do they even care?
I thought the Republicans 'love the troops'?
History has shown that nations that have no problem using torture in war WILL find excuses to torture it's own citizens.
Fuck their words, check out their deeds.
Slavery, Jim Crow, Plessy v Ferguson, women's voting rights, fair wages for women and minorities, any form of integration, Brown v Board of Education, Civil Rights, and on and on...they've never done shit for anyone other than themselves.
There's no sense for the continuous frustration waiting for these terminally ill, hypocritically suck fucks to ever do right....The Conservative party is the last bastion for racist, ignorant, violent, frightened white trash.
It's hard to get a fix on how much the O'Reillys, Limbaughs, Hannitys of the world actually affect public opinion. I know their collective audience is huge but I'm unsure of how far beyond those 30-35 million people their reach is. I'm also wondering, even to the extent which their talking points permeate more "mainstream" news outlets and opinion makers, does it really affect what the majority of Americans think? I mean, it was unsuccessful in the presidential and congressional elections, right?
I wonder, at what point does/will the undeniable reality of war-crimes, violations of constitutional rights, breaking of federal laws, etc., outweigh the deluge of misinformation.
When Obama said "the ground has shifted beneath you" - is he saying what I believe to be true, that the media is no longer an accurate reflection of reality and the majority of the people now recognize this? Public skepticism of the media is hard to measure, but I get the sense that the influence of these guys has been greatly diminished by their decades long crusade against media bias - a double edged sword.
hmmm....
"...at what point does/will the undeniable reality of war-crimes, violations of constitutional rights, breaking of federal laws, etc., outweigh the deluge of misinformation..."
At what point does it become criminal?
http://pov-mentarch1.blogspot.com/2008/10/jou...
I've often thought that the so-called journalists who have been cheerleaders (propagandists) for neo-con administration and all of it's crimes are just as guilty as the ones who made the decisions and perpetrated the acts. Here's a para from your article quoting the prosecutor at Nuremberg making that case - and he won; Streicher was hanged. Hope Billo and friends are reading this blog!!
"Presenting the case against Streicher (a German, pro-Nazi Journalist), British prosecutor Lieutenant Colonel M.C. Griffith-Jones said: “My Lord, it may be that this defendant is less directly involved in the physical commission of the crimes against Jews. ... The submission of the Prosecution is that his crime is no less the worse … that he made these things possible – made these crimes possible which could never have happened had it not been for him and for those like him. He led the propaganda and the education of the German people in those ways.”
... they're convinced they're right.
Which is why Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell sat there and blamed the gays, pagans, liberals, and secularists for 9/11.
"I say to you, you helped this happen."
...or even say, doesn't make it so. Ergo the prosecution of the journalist at Nuremberg. Eventually (and it;s beginning to look like sooner rather than later), the people of this nation will be suffering enough to stand up for themselves and say, "Enough!" Enough of the lies and the cheating and the stealing.
The last election demonstrated that many people are starting to understand. I'm still hoping Obama is for real and that he will have to guts to do what is necessary - investigate and prosecute those responsible for war crimes. If they can include the media whores, too - great!
... just pointing out the obvious, that Bill-O and all the other schmucks pitching 'moral clarity' and confusing '24' with real life will protest their innocence right up to the hangman's noose.
We can't move forward until we shed the mooring chain and anchor we've been dragging along behind us these past eight years.
Very often when I read a particularly intelligent, insightful, biting, and funny post here on C&L it occurs to me to check for the author. Invariably it comes up "Dave". Keep it rollin', bud!
As far as the topic goes, I have no words to waste on the Big Giant Head. Except those. And these last four.
man is she dumb.
Tammy Bruce? Tammy Bruce? Aaahhh...she's the one whose books are ranked 95,907...169,161...and 590,553 on Amazon. Bill'O gets himself some solid guest on The Factor. I guess it gets to a point where you offend so many people the only person you can get on your show is a "Tammy Bruce".
800,000 something on Amazon. When can I go on Bill's show?
because she is an out lesbian
the right, who hates teh gay, loves the self hating gay
thats how people like tammy and la talk host al rantel (an openly gay conservative man) get gigs
the repugs love people who hate themselves
You'd think they'd be *embarassed* to use such condescending and silly terminology. Somewhere in Valhalla, Goebels is smiling.
"normal" people cringe at the thought of being tortured, scum think its not that bad. I wish by going on national TV and saying something stupid about torture was punishable by ...ummmmm.... torture.
... was that it's fine if a citizen is so angry/outraged/frightened that they talk about torture.
But I expect my government to be the voice of reason, not cheering me on.
I think they got that from us actually. The term Clinton Derangement Syndrome used to be fairly common. The difference of course is that it was used to describe people getting bent out of shape over things that were either completely normal or things that were entirely made up (the Clinton hit list, etc.) Although maybe I'm missing your point. You're right that they should be embarrassed to use that term in an attempt to dismiss torture. Tammy Bruce is a shameless apologist for the right. The only reason they trot her out once in a while is to say "See. She's a feminist and a lesbian and she agrees with us."
Goebbels
I checked Wikipedia and didn't see any military service for him. Did he serve his country in the military?
Bruce is a cavalier, self-absorbed, anti-intellectual lightweight, and always has been. This borders of antisocial personality disorder.
Never heard of this babe. Does she do Dallas?
... Dallas is drunk and wearing a blindfold.
That's a bar game here.
That is one homely broad.
Man these people are crazy..
I'm sure there are many a convict that would welcome Reslug criminals like Rove, O'lielly, Dumbya, Cheney, Limp-Dick, etc. bend over in their jail cells.
Why are all Reslug whores so damn ugly???
... the bile and hatred is disfiguring.
...you really can't put lipstick on a pitbull.
I think it was West Hollywood where the Leather Castle was located.
waterboarding. They could sell tickets! I would gladly pay to see it, and I am sure that millions could be raised to pay for some needed educational expenses for ignorant Republicans. Then Bill could talk about torture with a little more knowledge about the subject.
waterboarding takes only 15 seconds and no one dies from the procedure. Better to use the rope trick (North Vietnamese)for the best in loud screaming and even death, or, just cut their heads off like the islamo's do. Ticket sales would soar!
"Hot tallow on the back, perhaps," said Piter. "The victim never knows where the tallow will fall next ... and there's a certain artistry to pus-white blisters on bare skin."
-- Dune
Waxing is always part of a fun date.
Your table is waiting.
Five minutes and any of these fascist goons would not only admit that waterboarding is torture, they would also admit that they are witches.
Ask Christopher Hitchens.
I love how Tammy Bruce and O'Reilly just brush aside concerns over the STRUCTURAL problem of Gitmo. The STRUCTURAL problem of suspending habeas corpus (infinitely....since the 'war on terror' seems to infinitely unending) and blame the probable cause on newspapers. If that isn't putting the blindfolds on, I don't know what is.
Disgusting.
Actually you can investigate on a suspicion, probable cause is for search warrants. And probably cause warrants just need a judge to sign off on it.
Wow, so then there is even more of a reason to investigate. Honestly, I never understand why even one person's report doesn't create (at least) a concern. But then there are multiple eye-witness accounts from guards and prisoners. It's scary that torture-preachers like Tammy Bruce truly don't think such testaments deserve attention.
I went on Tammy Bruce's website, and her bio described her as openly gay, a feminist and a Democrat who worked to elect Boxer and Feinstein in California. And yet she spews this pro-Bush shit?
Did she morph over to the Dark Side? What happened?
Torture violates the fifth amendment. The Bush administration violated the fifth amendment rights of gitmo detainees as well as Padilla's, who is an american citizen.
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