KENNEDY: Bear with me, may think this is a strange analogy but it's how my mind works. I think we're headed toward two investigations here. Here's how I think of it. Guy robs a bank. On the way to jail, the cops beat the living hades out of him. The cops should be investigated. Should you beat a criminal suspect? No. Should there be investigations? Yes. But you also have to go investigate the alleged bank robbery. And I think what you're going to see is an investigation of the whistleblower complaint and you're going to see an investigation of the allegations about Vice President Biden's son. Here's what we know about that and if you're going to be fair you have to look at both.

TODD: Let me ask you this.

KENNEDY: Let me answer.

TODD: Senator, I will give you a second to respond here, but here is where I find all this stuff a bunch of -- it's hard to believe on Hunter, it's hard to believe the concern about Hunter Biden by some of these folks making this case. If they were so serious about this, i'm trying to figure out why nobody from the FBI has been contacted. Not a single person. I don't understand why Rudy Giuliani thinks it's better to investigate an American by outsourcing it to a country that apparently they also didn't trust. Do you see why i'm skeptical that the Hunter Biden stuff is really that serious? If they were serious about it, you go to the FBI, you don't go to an oligarch in Ukraine.

KENNEDY: Well, number one, chuck, you don't know that the FBI hasn't been contacted.

TODD: And if there were an investigation, Senator, don't you think that our friends in the White House would let you know publicly that there was sort of inquiry going on?

KENNEDY: You don't know whether the FBI has been contacted or not or if the FBI follows protocol, they wouldn't tell us, point one. Point two, and I hope you'll let me finish, what we do know is this. A Russian oligarch hired Hunter Biden, paid him $50,000 a month, gave a bucket load of money to his law firm. It may turn out that the -- I said Russia, I meant Ukrainian oligarch. It may turn out that the Ukrainian oligarch got Mr. Biden's name off zip recruiter. But I doubt it. If you go to Mr. Biden's wikipedia page, there are other similar allegations. I'm not making an allegation of impropriety. But I am saying that's going to be investigated. If not at the instigation or the suggestion of Republicans, by Mr. Biden's co-candidates.

TODD: You do realize, Senator, a lot of people have attempted to look into this and they haven't found a "there" there to look into.

KENNEDY: Who has?

TODD: That's the point here, you brought up the FBI.

KENNEDY: Who's looked into it, Chuck?

TODD: Apparently the Ukrainian government. Apparently every Ukranian journalist.

KENNEDY: Has NBC looked into it?

TODD: Yes, sir. You realize you're looking for outcome, not the facts.

KENNEDY: No.

TODD: There have been four or five different entities who found nothing.

KENNEDY: Who?

TODD: I just told you.

KENNEDY: Wait.

TODD: I said Ukrainian journalists have, the Ukrainian government has. If the FBI is contacted, the FBI can't seem to open an investigation either because they haven't found enough. We've looked into it. The New York Times has looked into it. Maybe you're right, maybe there's magical missing information here. But at some point, do you not accept all of these entities looking into it to have found the answer? If what Hunter Biden did was wrong, boy, there are a lot of people with the last name of Trump that have some answering to do about their foreign work and their foreign entanglements.

KENNEDY: I'm going to have to disagree with you, Chuck, I don't think there's been an investigation of this.

TODD: Who would have to conduct this investigation for you to accept there's nothing there? Do we have to conduct investigations basically based on partisan fairness? If we do this, we have to do that? That isn't how the rule of law works, sir.

KENNEDY: If you want to be fair, in my example that you need to investigate both the alleged bank robber and the alleged violation by the policeman who beat the bank robber suspect. Now, you have said there have been investigations. I'm saying who. You're telling me MSNBC has investigated this and concluded that there was nothing wrong with Hunter Biden being picked -- no. The allegation is this. That somehow the Vice President was acting on his own behalf, not on the behalf of essentially the entire Western world, in calling for a corrupt investigator to get fired. The allegation is that somehow he was doing it at the behest of his son.

TODD: There is no evidence that anything like that exists. It's an allegation that you're simply making -- it's sort of the old LBJ, we have no idea if it's true but make them deny it. That's not how politics is supposed to work. I understand in Louisiana and Texas it can work that way sometimes. But we were trying to create a fair rule of law here standpoint.

KENNEDY: I agree, Chuck, and if you were right, I would agree with you. If you were right, I would agree with you. But you're wrong, this hasn't been investigated.

TODD: Just because you think that the -- I'm not alleging the Vice President did anything wrong. But I'm just telling you the American people are looking at this and going, "okay, umm, Mr. Biden -- okay." And how does that have anything to do with the President of the United States going to another world leader and saying, open an investigation up on my chief political rival?

KENNEDY: Because it has to do with Ukrainian corruption which is what all of this is about.

TODD: The Ukrainian corruption, it depends on what you view as corruption. What one side is corrupt, I am trying to be fair here, but you can't gaslight us, sir. Don't gaslight us.

KENNEDY: I'm not gaslighting you. I'm telling you the facts. Do you deny those facts, do you think they got Hunter Biden's name off zip recruiter?